Head-to-Head “Ex-Gay” Debate with the Notorious Wayne Besen

My Debate Opponent: Founder of the gay rights organization “Truth Wins Out”, Wayne Besen‘s life’s mission is to discredit ex-gay ministries and leaders. Praise the Lord for the opportunity to go head to head with him!

Ex-gay or otherwise, many leaders fall these last days. Besen’s claim to fame is having taken an incriminating photo of former ex-gay leader John Paulk outside of a gay bar. Besen strives to prove that the rest of us will ultimately follow suit.

Disclaimer: Castaway Ministries began in the red light districts of Bangkok, and I/we continue to minister to sex workers as the Lord leads. Photos taken of me/us against the backdrop of a gay bar would only serve to prove that I am doing what I am called to do.

Key Point: Failures of some do not reduce the credibility of the Lord or His inspired Word.

“For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” Romans 8:18

Podcast Background: The Raw Story is a liberal online tabloid based in Washington, DC. According to Wikipedia, Michael Rogers serves as “Partner, Vice Chairman and Managing Director”. Rogers co-hosts this podcast with Shannyn Moore. Subject of the film Outrage, Rogers and Besen are similarly motivated.

People Heard or Mentioned on the Podcast: Michael Rogers , host & moderator; Shannyn Moore, co-host; Wayne Besen, debater; Matthew Karchner, debater; David, producer.

Click Here to Listen to the Debate entitled “Can Jesus Make You Straight?”

Any of us could die at any moment. CLICK HERE to find out how you can know enduring peace, God’s purpose for your life and be sure you will go to heaven when your brief time on earth is up.

Click Here to Buy Karchner’s Controversial Ex-Gay Testimony Books (the “Straight” Series):

1) Straight: an ExGay Prodigal Story

2) Straight 2: ExGay Adventures in Christ

4 Replies to “Head-to-Head “Ex-Gay” Debate with the Notorious Wayne Besen”

  1. Hi, Matt – I just listened to the debate.  You were very brave to go on that show.  It was obviously 3 on one side of the debate against 1.  I think you did well in putting forth your experience and how you are living today by following Jesus.  They obviously did not agree with most of what you said but for the most part treated you with respect.  It was hard to hear Wayne accusing you of being inauthentic in addition to his glib assurance that everyone fails at leaving the gay lifestyle. Inviting to help you when you decide you can’t continue was dismissive of all that you had shared – as if it couldn’t be real.  I loved that you offered to walk him through repentance when he is ready!  The show before and after your interview was difficult to listen to…but I persevered and made it through.

    I had never heard of Wayne Besen before.  Or the the podcast.  I will not be tuning in again to Raw Story.

    Take care and carry on,


    Liked by 1 person

  2. Matthew, I admire your honesty for admitting you are not heterosexual, not straight in terms of your sexual orientation. And you admitted you are still attracted to men sexually. What you don’t seem to realize yet is that there is a very high probability you will end up divorced and even married to a man someday. I was married to a woman for 26 years before I finally accepted that my sexual orientation was not “a temptation” but rather a part of me, a trait like my eye color or left-handedness. I married a man I met 14 years ago. Life is good. And the love remains with my ex-wife; we are good friends. Blessings on your journey.


    1. The Bible is the inspired, inerrant Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16). And from beginning to end, across multiple contexts, homosexuality is consistently condemned as sin. It is a counterfeit, a perversion of God’s brilliant design (Genesis 1:27, 2:7, 18, 21-24, Leviticus 18:22, 20:13; Romans 1:20-32; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; 1 Timothy 1:10; Jude 7).

      ‘Everybody else fell. Just give up. Leave your wife, and start sodomizing men again.’ Is that your point?

      “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.” 1 Peter 5:8

      In war, many fall. The Bible is full of stories of men and women who failed the Lord. We are Not called to follow people (Galatians 1:10). We are called to please and follow the Lord Jesus Christ according to His timeless, inerrant Word that supersedes cultures and popular opinions (2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20-21). The failures of multitudes do not discredit His Word… and should not discourage you and me from following Christ into new life (Matthew 16:25).

      This world will pass away, but His Word will not.

      “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” Matthew 24:35

      Each of us will stand before the Lord God Almighty and give an account for everything we have said and done… down to every idle word.

      “But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.” Matthew 12:36

      ‘I turned back because (ex-gay leader x) fell,” will not be a valid excuse on that day.


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